{"id":606,"date":"2013-01-19T10:47:41","date_gmt":"2013-01-19T16:47:41","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.podles.org\/dialogue\/?p=606"},"modified":"2013-01-19T15:40:54","modified_gmt":"2013-01-19T21:40:54","slug":"the-vineyard-of-the-lord-of-hosts","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.podles.org\/dialogue\/the-vineyard-of-the-lord-of-hosts-606.htm","title":{"rendered":"The Vineyard of the Lord of Hosts?"},"content":{"rendered":"

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From A Vineyard Church website<\/p>\n

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Rod Dreher has had interesting blogs Luhrmann\u2019s When God Talks Back<\/em> here <\/a>and here<\/a>. The book was also reviewed in the NYT<\/a><\/p>\n

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I am not a staretz, so I will make no judgment about the prayer practices and experiences of the members of the Vineyard Church. Some of it is very familiar and seems on the whole to be well within the bounds of Christian tradition, although at times it seems a little too therapeutic and one misses the hard calls of the Gospel to repentance. <\/span><\/p>\n

Luhrmann noticed that erotic overtones of some of these practices <\/span><\/p>\n

Of the Vineyard\u2019s \u00a0music, Luhrmann observes: <\/span><\/p>\n

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\u201cGod is intensely human in this music, and the singer wants him so badly that the lyrics sound like a teenage fan\u2019s crazed longing for a teen idol she can touch.\u201d p. 5<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n

and<\/p>\n

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\u201cSome songs are almost sexual, with a touch so might that teh suggestion could slip past. Here is the megahit \u201cDwell\u201d: \u201cDwell in the midst of us\/ Come and have your way.\u201d p. 5 <\/span><\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n

Women have \u201cdates\u201d with God. <\/span><\/p>\n

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\u201cThat was particularly striking\u00a0 in the way people spoke about \u201cdate night\u201d with God.\u00a0 Date night<\/em> was a term only women used. (Men would talk about evenings with \u201cquiet time\u201d with God. The women would set aside the night, and they imagined it romantically; it was a \u201cdate.\u201d\u00a0 They might pick up dinner or set out a plate at the table, and they imagined their way through the evening talking to God, cuddling with God, and basking in God\u2019s attention.\u201d p. 82 <\/span><\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n

Such approaches leave men cold- at least heterosexual men.<\/span><\/p>\n

Perhaps connected with this, perhaps not, are the sexual irregularities, especially the homosexual ones, that occur in Pentecostal\/charismatic communities.<\/span><\/p>\n

One of the flamboyant founders of the Vineyard Church, <\/span>Lonnie Frisb<\/a>ee, <\/span> <\/span>was a married but was also having homosexual affairs. He eventually died of AIDS.<\/span><\/p>\n

I was involved with the charismatic prayer group at Catholic University; It turned out that one of the key leaders was an active homosexual who died of AIDS. A renowned liberal theologian at CU was his spiritual director.<\/span><\/p>\n

In Charlottesville I also attended a charismatic prayer group at an estate outside town. Years later I learned that the married man who was the minister was an active bisexual.<\/span> <\/span><\/p>\n

Is there a connection between a eroticized religion and sexual irregularities? I suspect that there is a connection, at least in some cases, and perhaps Pentecostalism is especially susceptible to it<\/p>\n

Such phenomenon caused Msgr. Knox to suspect the presence of the erotic element in enthusiasm, but of course it is not confined to emotional movements. Bridal mysticism is a recurrent theme in both Catholicism and Protestantism; very few heterosexual men like to play the role of the blushing bride.<\/p>\n

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BTW<\/p>\n

I believe that tongues is a real and legitimate form of prayer. I don\u2019t know what it is, or why it fell into desuetude after the Apostolic era. Decades ago I started praying in tongues spontaneously one night when I was alone.<\/span> <\/span>I recently had an operation and was under anesthesia. The doctor reported that I was praying in tongues during the operation. What part of the brain is praying? I don\u2019t know \u2013 but it seems to be real and helpful to many Christians to pray with both the rational part of the mind and with whatever part is praying in tongues.<\/span><\/p>\n

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\r\n\t<\/div>\r\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

From A Vineyard Church website Rod Dreher has had interesting blogs Luhrmann\u2019s When God Talks Back here and here. The book was also reviewed in the NYT I am not a staretz, so I will make no judgment about the prayer practices and experiences of the members of the Vineyard Church. Some of it is […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_mi_skip_tracking":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[113,595,508,60],"tags":[696,697,1141,695,694],"class_list":["post-606","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-homosexuality","category-popular-religion","category-protestantism","category-women-in-church","tag-erotic-religion","tag-glossolalia","tag-homosexuality","tag-pentecostalism","tag-vineyard-church-charismatics","has-post-title","has-post-date","has-post-category","has-post-tag","has-post-comment","has-post-author"],"aioseo_notices":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.podles.org\/dialogue\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/606","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.podles.org\/dialogue\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.podles.org\/dialogue\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.podles.org\/dialogue\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.podles.org\/dialogue\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=606"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.podles.org\/dialogue\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/606\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.podles.org\/dialogue\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=606"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.podles.org\/dialogue\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=606"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.podles.org\/dialogue\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=606"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}