Too many Christians have the idea that all you need to do to be saved is be basically good or at least well-intentioned. They have a week grasp on the holiness of God and the infinite distance between divine holiness and natural man at his best.
As a corollary to this attitude, there are acceptable and non-acceptable sins. Acceptable sins are the sins that normal middle class people commit, such as fornication and adultery. More expansive people extend it to underclass sins, such as murder.
But almost everyone draws the line at genocide and child abuse.
What people have a hard time grasping (and I include myself) is that Christ came to die for sinners, including the worst of sinners.
Catholics pray for the living and the dead. Purgatory is a specifically western Catholic doctrine, but Protestants with whom I have discussed it say that the equivalent Protestant doctrine is standing before the judgment seat of God after death, and seeing the full truth of one’s life and of God’s attitude to it.
After the attacks pf 9/11. I couldn’t bring myself to pray for the attackers, although they needed prayers more than anyone else. I prayed for all the dead. When I did the Camino, each day prayed for the victims of sexual abuse and for the abusers – and that was a hard prayer to make.
As part of their prayers for the dead, Catholics have masses said for the deceased. The mass is not meant to honor the deceased (as idea that has taken hold at funeral masses) but to pray for them as they come before the judgment seat of God.
In Franco’s Spain (and perhaps today) masses are said for the repose of the soul of Adolf Hitler – and if anyone needs prayer, he does. A mass is being offered for the terrible abuser, Cardinal Groër. He had homoerotic contact with almost very student he can in contact with, perhaps a thousand , perhaps more. His case has devastated the church in Austria, and still causes trouble:
VIENNA – Reacting to criticism, an Austrian bishop says he has changed his mind and will not attend a memorial Mass for a cardinal accused of molesting young boys.
Agidius Zsifkovics, the bishop of Eisenstadt, was to participate in Monday’s Mass marking the 10th anniversary of the death of Cardinal Hans Hermann Groer. But Zsifkovics says he decided not to “after numerous encounters and discussions over the past days.”
Groer stepped down as archbishop of Vienna in 1995 after former theological students accused him of sexual abuse.
After Zsifkovics initially said he would attend the service, a statement on the website of “Those Affected by Churchly Abuse” late last month accused him of planning to honour a man who left “a trail of spiritual destruction.”
I don’t know what was the intention of Bishop Zsifkovics; but masses are said – or at least should be said – not to honor the deceased but to pray for him, a sinner. And the worst sinners need the most prayers.
When I was stationed at Via Coeli Monastery in Jemez Springs, NM in 1965 with the Paracletes as a novice, I met Brother Paul Jones. He passed out a card to everyone he met which said “The Sinners’ Club”. No dues, no meetings, just a daily prayer: “Lord have mercy on me, a sinner!”. Brother Paul was a member of AA from New York City and he had been a victim of priestly sexual abuse and an abuser, before joining the Paracletes. Brother Paul ran the switchboard and I spent many hours talking to him and listening to his stories. He told me he used to work in Vaudeville and that Cardinal Spellman and many Archbishops and priests would often pick up the young boys on Broadway, and use them as male prostitutes. I still have Brother Paul’s card in my wallet and I have thought of him many times. Right now, an old friend named Father Michael O’Brien is being accused of raping a 10 year old altar boy back in 1992 in Questa, NM. Father Mike died from cancer at age 48 and was buried in Mora, NM near the chapel of Santo Nino. Father Mike was our first pastor in Estancia from 1972-1976. He started the 100 mile annual pilgrimages for vocations, from Estancia to the sacred shrine at Chimayo NM. I have lived in both Chimayo and Estancia and I will no doubt be called as a witness during this upcoming court case against the Santa Fe Archdiocese. I made the pilgrimage from Estancia to Chimayo in 1981 and it took me a whole week to recover my strength. I just received an e-mail from Father David T. Fitzgerald s.P., the new head superior of the Paracletes,telling me that he was saving all of my letters and messages to him. I have also been contacted by the trial lawyers. I AM GOING TO SEND THEM BOTH A SINNERS’ CLUB CARD!
There’s that beautifully compassionate prayer we used to say at the end of each decade:
Lord Jesus,
Forgive us all our sins.
Save us from the fires of hell on earth.
Lead all souls to heaven,
Especially those most in need of thy mercy.
We pray for the dead. But that does not mean that Cardinal Groer should be buried as a priest with any hullabaloo.
AW
It’s one thing to say a mass for a dead psychopath and child molester. It’s another to “mark the 10th anniversary” of his death.
The idea of “marking an anniversary” has the feel of celebrating and honoring something. There should be no celebration or honoring of the life of somebody who caused so much pain and suffering. That would be an insult and affront to all those who suffered at his hands.
Sure, say masses for all the murderers, child molesters, psychopaths, and sexual sadists who took great pleasure in causing pain and suffering to others. Surely they need prayers more than most.
But don’t do it in such a way as “marking an anniversary”. Do it at a daily mass, unannounced and unheralded.
And make sure that there are plenty of masses said for all those who suffered at the hands of these sociopaths. “Today’s Mass will be for all the victims who suffered unspeakable acts and unspeakable harm at the hands of Archbishop Groer”.
Otherwise, it just seems like the Church is celebrating the 10th anniversary of his death, which is a scandal given all the harm he caused.
Augusta ,I have always thought that the prayer you cite was meant for our time when so many have no idea what is and is not sinful.Confusion and ignorance are rampant!
Before receiving Holy Eucharist during the Divine Liturgy of St John Crysostom we pray aloud for forgiveness of our sins and accuse ourselves as the “First among sinners.”Aside from the private Sacrament of Penance, this prayer always reminds one of standing before the Judgement Seat by way of personal reflection before Communion.
Oso ,
I was told the same by a man from NYC.He also said the boy prostitutes had small tatoos between their ring and pinky fingers to identify just who they “belonged” to.There was a hotel near Times Square at the time which was frquented by the same .Odd you should mention “Vaudeville” because this man also mentioned a Church he called the “Actor’s Chapel”.I wonder if there was a connection?
http://www.actorschapel.org/
Ginger,
You are right, a publicly-announced mass sounded like it was honoring Groer. The SOB needs our prayers, but not in any way that glosses over what he did.
Why isn’t every Diocese saying at least a monthly Mass for the victims and the families of those who were abused by the clergy?
Come to think about it why aren’t Masses being said to the restore the Faith of the laity who thought their donations were going to the upkeep of their parishes rather than to pay off the victims and increase the incomes of the Law firms on both sides?
All I have heard about is to pray for vocations and I wonder if I would want to see any sincere straight man enter these seminaries of which no one has demonstrated proof were cleaned up and out?
I posted a comment in the Accountability section to one story’s com box in which another poster was arguing that homosexuals can live “rightous holy” upright lives and should become Catholic priests.
I asked how is it a “rightous and holy upright homosexual” male would want to place himself in the near occasion of sin by entering a seminary while being sexually attracted to the men there and in the rectories where he might be stationed?
I cited the bi annual AIDS CEU’s required for many Healthcare workers which repeatedly emphasize that same sex attracted males are at highest risk for contrating the virus since they have the greatest rate for multiple non monogamous relationships and thus, should be considered at higher risk than other groups in the population.
Is the Healthcare establishment homophobic or the blog host newspaper fearful of being labeled the same? The statement was not published.
Remember the last sentence in the Act of Contrition about firmly resolving to not place oneself in the near occasion of sin? i guess that was flushed too along with other prayers that might cause a penitant to reflect?
Mary I think the problem sometimes is that young men who are homosexually inclined are in deep denial. Especially if they come from families or backgrounds where to even have temptation in this area is unacceptable. More than once I’ve had middle aged husbands tell me they have been “living a lie” in being married, but were not able to face facts or admit the incination until later in life.
Young men with same sex attraction who are liberally inclined may have no problem with acknowledging ( let alone consenting to) their inclinations. I would worry about some of the conservative and traditional types. As I mentioned in an earlier post, when Michael Vorris said in one episode of The Vortex that gay Catholics/priests hate the Traditional Mass, I laughed. What hole has he had his head in? The problem with some (many?) homosexually inclined young conservative Catholic men is that they don’t consciously recognize where their deep desires point.
Fr Michael, I can only say UGH!
I agree but allow me to explain why…..
IMHO men today and for the most part, even fifty years ago, are very immature especillay in regard to self introspection and realization.
I probably posted this before but it made such an impression on my husband and myself I will repeat it .Forgive me for my redundancy.
Years ago an old Dutch bi ritual Catholic priest in his early nineties, came to say Divine Liturgy at our Mission Church.He was shortly returning to his “homeland to die”and decided to say one last Mass before getting on the plane. He said he was overjoyed by the singing of the responses during Mass and the enthusiasm for the Faith in our little Church.
His homily was on the male youth.Stating he lived through the Agrarian, the Industrial and Post Industrial eras and witnessed first hand the changes in society especially amongst men.
In the Agrarian Age they learned what it was to be a man and provide for a family.They learned by working on the farm with their fathers ,uncles and brothers. In the Industrial Age they learned a trade when they apprenticed under a male role model. In the Post Industrial era they went to high school and college and learned from their peers who were and are ,just as stupid as them.
The end result has been a postponed latent or maturity.
Now I would hazard to guess that with all the porn , parties and technolgies along with the perverse social agendas available, they learn from the culture.
Or should I more appropriately state that they are thoroughly CONFUSED by the culture?
How can we change this?
Our own efforts were to home school .But alas, the children still have to go out live and deal with the culture on their own. So we pray we equipped them with enough insight and Faith to do battle.
Seeing this trend and offering a “safe” haven the perverse Traditional Order of the SSJ under Urrutigoity planned a self contained Catholic Community.Ave Maria Town also jumped on the bandwagon as did Traditional SSPX community in St Mary’s Kansas.Ralph Martin the “catholic” charismatic did the same with the ‘People of Hope’ community as did so many others including the Traditional Feeneyites..
The results of these efforts speak for themselves all having been labeled “cults” at one time or another.
I believe most real Catholic parents recognize the threats to family life today but are confused as to how to adequately prepare their children and confront it head on. That is where a good priest becomes invaluable as a back up confirming source .Sadly, the predator priests are also aware of this and at least in my vicinity ,are pulling it off by pretending to embrace the Latin rituals and Masses.
Forgive the typos above as I am developing eyesight problems now.
When my new girl friend told me that I was the most feminine man she had ever met, I started to think deeply. After much reflection and reading Freud I think our sexual identities fall into a wide spectrum between absolute male and absolute female. Where you land on that spectrum should have no bearing on your rights and basic human freedoms. It is high time to acknowledge once and for all that the right to enter into loving, consensual relationships and to seal them with the bonds of marriage should not be infringed. I wish all my LGBT friends the best at the altar and at the Supreme Court. We all have a individual and unique identity rooted in our congenital traits and in our life experiences. Just like no one is completely black or white, we are all a mixture of male and female.
The catholic clergy has forever housed bi sexual men. Straight seminarians soon learn bi sexual tendencies when their superiors are coercing them into sex.
It is ludicrous to pretend that a primarily homo erotic priesthood is a newish development. The only change that has taken place is our awareness of the immense hypocrisy of the clerical priesthood. Praise all that is holy that this is being revealed.
AW
I wouldn’t call it “deep desires.” I would call it a deeply-rooted attraction. Desires and attractions are not the same, especially when it comes to “deep” ones.
As I write this I am being summoned to meet with an attorney who is suing the Santa Fe Archdiocese for covering up the fact that an accused priest, an former friend of mine, is now being accused of raping a 10-year old boy in Questa, NM. back in 1990 or so. The attorney just won a settlement of over 30 millian dollars against the Boy Scouts of America. I know the priest who actually was at the parish of Questa, and he confessed to being gay and doing nasty things at a memorial service for his gay lover in Albuquerque. The priest who is being accused died of cancer at age 48 in 1992 0r 1993. He was an orphan raised in an hispanic village near Questa and he spoke perfect Spanish. His first assignment after his ordination in 1972 to 1976, was as the very first pastor of my hometown of Estancia, NM. Because everyone here is related to everyone else, no one wants to speak out in his defense. One young hispanic woman said that she thought his cancer was a “just punishment” from God for whatever he did. I also got a warning from the superior general of the Servants of the Partacletes that he is giving all my emails to his legal advisor. I have never before known such a loving, compassionate and humble priest as my former friend, Father Mike O’Brien, the accused. He can not defend himself from the grave and he has been “branded” as a pedophile for something he supposedly did over 30 years ago in Questa, NM while he was dying of cancer in Albuquerque.
Oso et al,
Apparently my Bible teaches something quite different . I guess Catholicism that claims to be based on Scripture and Tradition is passe.This must be the newer revised Patriotic Church that I am hearing of.
While we must love one another ,that does not mean we go against the teachings of Scripture nor does it mean that LGBT folk should be espousing something heterodox to the Faith in our Church communities or serving at our altars.
Speaking of metrosexuallity I have seen qiute a bit of it in practice.I do not think that effeminate gestures or the appreciation of what current culture defines as feminine taste and gentleness necessarily indicates homosexuality.
Personality should never be confused with Sexuality. My friends with very large families attest to the wide span of differences amongst their children . In fact, they have often expressed amusement by the alleged experts who develop categories in order to place us all in pegged slots.
What I consider wrong is when someone from the LGBT decides to join a Catholic Church Community and flaunt their sexuality expecting others to consider their sexual preferences as “normal”and I include priests here too.
My cousin’s son complained some years ago that when first attending Mass U a knock came on his dormitory door and a young man introduced himself by name and then stated he was “gay”. My relative said he was already warned not to show any emotion when this happened because this was a screening process to see which new male students should be referred for on campus Sensitivity Training.His complaint to me was that the heterosexuals male students did not do the same in announcing their sexual orientation and if they did, it would be considered harrassment.
To be clear….
I know many persons who are overt in their preferences but I do not want them in my Church adverstising their sexuality and expecting me or my fellow Catholics to embrace their sexual acts as normal which are considered to be sinful as stated by St Paul and in Lamentations, nor will I buy into their revised Scriptural versions of Sodom and Gommorrah as,” sinning against Hospitality.”
That said,
those who justify and advertise their adulterous or fornication habits or take a pro abortion stand amongst a Church Community expecting to convince others it is compatable with Christian Theology should not be welcome either.
The confusion seems to rest in the notion of what real ‘love’ is for one another doesn’t it? I can love my neighbor while not accepting his sinful acts but I certainly do not have to accept them as legitimate examples of Christianity within my Church Community no matter what the prevalent cultural or political agenda is.
Persuant of a political agenda which practices reverse descrimination as a rule of law.
“Oregon math teacher escorted out by police
Set to be fired for opposing Planned Parenthood in the classroom”
http://cal-catholic.com/wordpress/2013/04/08/oregon-math-teacher-escorted-out-by-police/
Yet back in the nineties most libraries had fire sales on old novels in the children’s book sections and they were replaced with stories with titles such as ‘King and King”.
http://www.protectkidsfoundation.org/?page_id=171
I was involved in homeschooling ,and used the local library as a good resource up until that time.A PHD Child Psychology College Professor who was also on the local school board was invited to address Librarians who were upset by this shift. She reported the same was being mandated in all public school curricula .For example, the history texts had to incorporate the same number of American war heroes
scientists ,writers and authors who were of the LGBT group as straight males .Now it has permeated into the churches that call themselves Christian .
Diluting and revising the Scriptures is in the offing at present.Read a Bible that has not been recently hit by the ‘inclusion police”.
Lv 18:1-3,Jdg 1924-30,WSir 16:8,9,Rom 1:26,27.The Word which is Jesus Christ according to the Apostles surpasses Freud as a guide for a True Believer .
Trouble is that a Christian cleric who preaches these truths and acts on the opposite even in private and without repentance condemns himself twice for the same sin and calls down God’s wrath on the world according to the Scriptures.
I’ld say we are in deep trouble.
How is it Americans have seen fit to make laws based on the moral exceptions in society rather than what has been considered foundational for healthy societies throughout history?
We are regressing and becoming real pagans once again.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=tUby8vmsieA
Even this Opus dei production host has a blind spot when it comes to his own “saint’s” “Disconnect” demonstrated by his obtuse defense of the sin of genocidal murder in lieu of justification for the sinner.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/1992/01/12/a-questionable-saint.html
“In a NEWSWEEK interview, more damning accusations were made by Father Vladimir Feltzman, who resigned from Opus Dei in 1985 after 22 years. He is now an aide to Cardinal Basil Hume, England’s Roman Catholic primate. According to Feltzman, Escriva feared human sexuality, believed everything he wrote “came from God,” possessed “a filthy temper” and even defended Adolf Hitler. “He told me that Hitler had been unjustly accused of killing 6 million Jews,” Feltzman says. “In fact he had killed only 4 million. That stuck in my mind.”
Was his “fear of human sexuality” common amongst clerics resulting in an untoward defensive swing in the opposite direction amongst Catholics?
IMHO We must separate ourselves between what is defense of sin and a genuine love for our neigbor .
Here lies the wages of moral sin in collusion with medical science and ethics.
http://jme.bmj.com/content/early/2012/03/01/medethics-2011-100411.full
After the attacks pf 9/11. I couldn’t bring myself to pray for the attackers, although they needed prayers more than anyone else. I prayed for all the dead.
Leon, the dead cannot repent. The perpetrators of 9/11 took God’s name in vain by committing murder in His name. They would have viewed repentence, given their thinking, as apostasy.
This is one reason I no longer consider myself Catholic: the moral equivalence between the perpetrators of evil and the victims of evil. The church’s revisionist, abolitionist stance on capital punishment for murder reflects that moral equivalence.
Yes, Christ came to save sinners but the chance to embrace Him is while we are alive. God is not mocked. God hates murder, especially if committed in His holy, righteous name.
The catholic clergy has forever housed bi sexual men….It is ludicrous to pretend that a primarily homo erotic priesthood is a newish development.
St. Peter Damian would agree with you, Augusta. He wrote “The Book of Gomorrah,” an illustrated treatise against clerical pederasty and concubinage, in 1049!
If this kind of thing was going on in the 11th century, you can bet it was going on for at least two or three centuries previous.
Maybe Samuel Johnson said it best: “Men may discourse like angels but they live like men. ”
AW
Fr Michael,
“The problem with some (many?) homosexually inclined young conservative Catholic men is that they don’t consciously recognize where their deep desires point.”
Whether LGBT or straight , conservative or liberal , precious few today recognize that most deep deires for immoral acts are inspired by the Evil One.He has made sure the reality of his presence is considered an antiquated myth.
Mary et al, Unlike you, the scriptures evolve as a living document. Slavery is no longer accepted (slaves , obey your masters) and evolution is a scientific fact. The sin of Sodom was not sodomy but inhospitality (you might say they wanted to enter through the wrong door.)
Oso,
You are a gentle and compassionate man who obviously feels empathy for others. Those traits should never be labeled as exclusively feminine.If they were I would not be married for almost half a century!
Human beings are formed with myriad of characteristics through life’s experiences and as many personality traits from nature.
Speaking as one who slogged along for four years through a Psyche Degree , Freud was a self admitted cocaine addict who made sexuality the basis for every neurosis that showed up at his door.
It is really only by self examination of conscience that is formed according to right reasoning that we gain insight into ourselves. ( not Freud’s)
Your compassion and empathy for a deceased friend is obvious to us all . May the Truth known to God prevail in your efforts to vindicate your friend.
All perpetrators are good and worthy of love as images of God. They do evil acts, for which reparation and restitution are necessary to victims and societ. Better they are held accountable in this life than the next. Prayer for their souls is not moral equivalence. Those who have covered up should also be held accountable, regardless if the perp is dead or alive.
mary ann, those who commit murder descecrate the image of God within themselves, as well as arbitrarily deny life to those created in that image. Read Genesis 9:5-6.
As far as praying for the souls of the dead is concerned, do you think God does not know their psychology on a level that humanity cannon comprehend, let alone their every motivation, thought and action? What, truly, can humanity add that God does not know?
“All perpetrators are good… “.. Really, Mary Ann? And “images of God “?
AW
Yes, good in their being. Everything that is, is good, in so far as it is (st. Thomas Aquinas). even the devil is good, in his existence, his act of being, which came from God.
Oso, Inhospitality?
Because they wanted the young men to come out from Lots’ house to sodomize them and Lot offered his own daughters to them instead.That was inhospitality?
Guess they should have waited to get to know them better and that would have been a more hospitable time for gang rape.?
With regrd to the Sin of Sodom
http://www.str.org/site/News2?id=5702
http://blog.adw.org/2012/12/the-sin-of-sodom-and-gomorrah-is-not-about-hospitality/
“Current culture may well reach the point where the majority approves of homosexuality as acceptable behavior. Those who disapprove may well be accused of being “politically incorrect,” intolerant, or “judgmental” (even as Lot was!—Genesis 18:9). However, the objective, unbiased reader of the Bible is forced to conclude that God destroyed the men of Sodom on account of their sinful practice of homosexuality.”
https://www.apologeticspress.org/apcontent.aspx?category=7&article=614
I see advocacy of tolerance for homosexuality as similar to that of the push for drug legalization. Interestingly, those who practice homosexuality are often heavy drug-users. These people are to be pitied and helped. Their lifestyles aren’t something to be held up as virtuous. Homosexual activists may call my attitude fascist or hateful, terms that I believe apply more to homosexual activists than anyone else.
Yes, good in their being. Everything that is, is good, in so far as it is (st. Thomas Aquinas). even the devil is good, in his existence, his act of being, which came from God.
mary ann, when it comes to punishment for murder, Aquinas had this to say:
If a man is a danger to the community, threatening it with disintegration by some wrongdoing of his, then his execution for the healing and preservation of the common good is to be commended. Only the public authority, not private persons, may licitly execute malefactors by public judgment. Men shall be sentenced to death for crimes of irreparable harm or which are particularly perverted.
The fact that the evil, as long as they live, can be corrected from their errors does not prohibit the fact that they may be justly executed, for the danger which threatens from their way of life is greater and more certain than the good which may be expected from their improvement. They also have at that critical point of death the opportunity to be converted to God through repentance. And if they are so stubborn that even at the point of death their heart does not draw back from evil, it is possible to make a highly probable judgment that they would never come away from evil to the right use of their powers.
One has to differentiate between God’s intention to create good and man’s tendency toward self, if not outright evil. Otherwise the first nine chapters of Genesis make no sense.
Good quote Joseph.
St. Thomas was concerned about the common good and the protection of the innocent. We moderns have become too focused on pitying the criminal
And Thomas Aquinas was not a perfect man, to say the least. The teachings of Our Lord regarding those who harm children speak volumes. Evil is as evil does. This idea that all is good because it comes into being, sounds very much like an idea whose time has left. Despite the adoration of Aquinas by generations of mostly clerical men, he himself mocked his beliefs from his death bed. In graduate school I learned that he suggested we burn his books. Instead, we still refer to his ideas as though he is The Lord Himself.
AW